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MisterAG

40k Chapter Approved - Matched Play

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MisterAG    22

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/09/new-matched-play-rules-in-chapter-approved-aug-9gw-homepage-post-1/

 

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What do you guys think of these three adjustments to matched play?

 

The game sure is changing at a fast and furious pace! On one hand I want to use these rules right away. On the other, however, we don't have the full Chapter Approved book yet. These adjustments are great, but we don't have the full picture. Maybe there are other just as interesting changes that are yet unleaked. Then again, the end of the article mentions a couple of big tournaments running between now and November that will be using these rules.

 

 

 

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Yarium    25

I really like them! At this pace I'm sure the book or whatever will be out before the BPO, so no issues there. It's a great thing to be clear that ALL Troops are getting ObSec before their codexes are out. The other changes are not huge, but the ObSec one I REALLY like!

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Kevin    45

For BPO I suggest use these, and limit strategims to the main rule book ones, and cut off the new FAQ/codexs November 1st.

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MisterAG    22

Just to sort out how Objective Secured works:

 

If I had a Batallion of <Ultramarines> then the Troops would be ObSec.

If I had a Batallion of Imperials with <Ultramarines> and <Cadians> then the Troops would NOT be ObSec

If I had a Batallion of <Cadians> and a Patrol of <Ultramarines> then the Troops from each  detachment would be ObSec.

 

Talk about encouraging chunky soup instead of a rag tag mix of every index!

 

Edited by MisterAG
grammar

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Yarium    25

I think that's for the best. Gives a good reason to have single army-list detachments in your forces. Right now it's kind of silly that despite being in different books you can have a totally legal force of Guardsmen conscripts with Space Wolf Veteran Dreadnaughts led by Dark Angel librarians backed by Roboute Gulliman because they are all Imperial. With this change, you can still take that list, but someone with all <Catachans> only needs to have 1 model at an objective to take it from you.

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Sam    17

Why would an all catachan list take it from an all imperial list?  I don't know a lot about battle forged armies, but don't they just need to have one keyword in common?

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Yarium    25
3 minutes ago, Sam said:

Why would an all catachan list take it from an all imperial list?  I don't know a lot about battle forged armies, but don't they just need to have one keyword in common?

When you take a Detachment, you make it a Detachment for a certain Faction. Maybe it's an Ultramarines detachment, or a Catachan detachment. By naming it such, if you take forces from a different Faction in that same detachment, then they wouldn't benefit from the ObSec. So if you took Catachans in an Ultramarine detachment, those Catachans wouldn't gain the benefits of ObSec.

However, MisterAG, couldn't I just take an "Imperial" faction detachment? Is there anything to stop me from doing so? In that case, all Imperial faction units would gain Obsec, even in the Catachans with Ultramarines example, so long as it's an Imperium faction detachment.

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Sam    17

But you would then lose all bonuses you might get for an ultramarines detachment, right?

What if you have an ultramarines detachment and two imperial knights?  Would the entire army need to be Imperial or could the ultramarines detachment be ultramarines giving them, and only them, the obsec advantage?

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Yarium    25
22 minutes ago, Sam said:

But you would then lose all bonuses you might get for an ultramarines detachment, right?

What if you have an ultramarines detachment and two imperial knights?  Would the entire army need to be Imperial or could the ultramarines detachment be ultramarines giving them, and only them, the obsec advantage?

That's true for that, yes, but it was just pointing out that MisterAG's clarification may not have been accurate. For your new question, the Imperial Knights would have to be in their own detachment in order for your Ultramarines to be both ObSec and gain the Chapter Tactics abilities. You could do this by having two Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments, each composed of 1 Imperial Knight.

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Sam    17

That's exactly how I have them set up, actually, and it's how I expected that worked.  Thanks :)

 

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dreadpirate    53

I am petty sure if you take your list under the imperium keyword you're still battleforged but will not receive things like faction specific Warlord traits. I still believe the stratagems would be able to be used as I believe you only need the faction as a detatchment in the list not to have the army battleforged. I could be wrong but I believe this is how it works, so in this case the entire army would be battleforged and obsec you just would not have access to faction specific WL traits or army specific rules (eg entire army gets -1 to hit for ravenguard as you've taken imperium as keyword not ravenguard)

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MisterAG    22

...after listening to Signals from the Frontline this evening it appears that my original thought was indeed correct!

 

Imperial Soup (or the off brands of Eldar and Chaos) will not benefit from ObSec. Expect a list of Faction keywords from which a 'pure' Detachment must be built.

Necrons will count, but Chaos will not.

Ultramarines will count while Imperial will not

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dreadpirate    53
1 hour ago, MisterAG said:

...after listening to Signals from the Frontline this evening it appears that my original thought was indeed correct!

 

Imperial Soup (or the off brands of Eldar and Chaos) will not benefit from ObSec. Expect a list of Faction keywords from which a 'pure' Detachment must be built.

Necrons will count, but Chaos will not.

Ultramarines will count while Imperial will not

That's great to hear.

Eldar still get ynarii for soupyness tho haha

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Wesley    0

So it sounds like as long as each individual detachment is one sub-faction then they get obsec and all other bonuses.

So you can for instance use a detachment of Salamanders and another detachment of Raven Guard and another of Astral Militarum Tempestus.

As all of the special abilities and such are stated at detachment level.

 

See time 25:40 of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLMC-qgHXM

 

Right?

 

-Wes

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Feluca    14

Are "Faction Detachments" a new thing?  I feel like GW needs to clarify this, I've yet to see them anywhere.   Someone stop me if I'm wrong.  For Matched play, your shit needs to be organized in detachments.  For a detachment to be legal, according to the rules, there only needs to be one common keyword for all the units.  For example, in my 1k sons 1500 pt army, in a battalion  detachment I can have Arhiman and a herald of Korne as HQ with rubric marines, Daemonettes and cultists as my troops.  They all share Chaos, so it's legal.  

Is there anything different in the new codex? 

edit: I'd argue to wait until the rules are fully understood before things get implemented.  Especially if they favor one faction over another(i.e. Imperium>>Xenos+Chaos) because certain rules haven't come out yet.

Edited by Feluca

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Wesley    0

True the Chapter Approved might put further restrictions.

But as of right now as per rules seems like Imperium gets a decent advantage over all others due to still being able to take a mix so long as detachents are mono sub-faction. With Chaos and Eldar being the second two that benefit but a far cry from how Imperium benefits.

I like the being able to mix from the stand point of fluff but it does seem to point to a game imbalance just due to the size of the model pool some have over others.

Hopefully if GW does limit the mix that they do allow some of the smaller Imperium side factions to maybe mix among themselves or taken along side other Imperium within reason; I am talking about Sisters of Silence & Custodes & Imperium Assassins & Imperium Pycheers and such; so the smaller support factions. 

Will be interesting to see where GW goes with this; as AoS also started very open then as time went on factions became much tighter defined; but now seems like Generals Handbook 2 with the allies rules seems like it may open that back up but with restrictions.

Just my thoughts!

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Feluca    14

Ask and ye shall receive

Quote

Ask and ye shall receive

-GW

Found some answers online.  No more questions for Chaos :-)

 

 I'm soooo fucking pumped to play.  The stratagems, although I can't comment on how OP they are, add a whole new level of depth to the game.  I think you'll really get(even more) the feeling that you're commanding an army.

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MisterAG    22

Have a peek at the ITC clarification on ObSec. That's why these guys are the pros. They make the rules playable for organized events.

 

 

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/08/15/itc-obsec-factoin-keyword-list/

 

On August 9, 2017, the Warhammer Community site introduced the Objective Secured rule. Since Chapter Approved is still forthcoming, Games Workshop clarified for us which Factions gain Objective Secured for the ITC community.

If your army is Battle-forged, all Troops units in <Faction> Detachments gain the Objective Secured rule, so long as every unit in a detachment has the same faction keyword from the following list: Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Ministorum, Asuryani, Drukhari, Harlequins, Chaos Daemons, Renegades & Heretics, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Necrons, T’au Empire, Orks, <Hive Fleet>, and Genestealer Cults. 

Troops units with Objective Secured that are within range of an objective marker (as specified in each mission’s rules) control it even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of an objective marker has a similar ability, then it is controlled by the player who has the most models within range as normal. 

Note: Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Chaos Space Marines, and Codex: Space Marines are explicitly not covered by Objective Secured because their Codexes provide a similar rule (i.e. Defenders of Humanity).

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MisterAG    22
24 minutes ago, dreadpirate said:

obsec is aids

Gotta do something to make troops important. I thought that the command points from a Batallion was enough, but ObSec is a classic addition.

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dreadpirate    53
2 hours ago, MisterAG said:

Gotta do something to make troops important. I thought that the command points from a Batallion was enough, but ObSec is a classic addition.

perhaps I have a lasting hatred for obsec due to pods and rhinos being obsec last edition but I don't feel it brings much to the game tactically. So this 1 guy somehow controls this objective over these 3-20 guys because he's a troop. I was sooo happy when it was more models on an objective because it required you to sacrifice distance/movement, etc.. even for blobs. Now you can just daisy chain and take off the furthest guy until none left.

 

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

Limits support balance. I'm 100% for this. 

In terms of what exactly? In what scenario where people gaining an advantage by not taking troops in 8th? The flyer thing was already fixed without obsec. If anything troops are far more valuable in 8th than in 7th even without obsec due to volume of fire.

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